Sunday, April 6th, 2008
Civil suit against Joran starts
Holland’s most famous lawyer Bram Moszkowicz has been preparing the civil suit agsinst Joran van der Sloot and possibly his parents. The lawyer works for Beth. Some websites reported on Friday that subpoena’s were sent to Joran, his parents, the crime reporter Peter R. de Vries and myself. Also the Kalpoe brothers have been called to testify, because the lawyer wants to figure out why they gave Joran a false alibi.
I have not received my subpoena yet, but expect to pick the doc from the doormat on Monday or Tuesday. Of course I will be there for Beth, who has suffered hard and long under this case.
Under Dutch law judges are traditionally very strict with damages for pain and suffering to relatives of victims of crimes and accidents . The lawmaker has always been afraid for a culture of ambulance chasers and the commercialization of grief. While in the civil suit against O.J. Simpson damages like $ 8.5 million were ruled, it would be out of the ordinary if a Dutch judge awards more than € 100.000 ($ 160.000). Perhaps this case will set a new trend. The life of Natalee’s parents has been derailed for years already.
Usually judges tend to focus only on material damages, like lost wages of breadwinners and funeral expenses. Especially the value of a child in this kind of legal culture in terms of dollars is low. In 2002 the Supreme Court of Holland agreed to immaterial damages in the first case ever, to a mother who had to witness the dead body of her daughter under the wheels of a truck, for a pittance of € 13.000. Of course the circumstances in this case are totally different, but it sets a trend.
The good news of this civil suit is that Joran and his parents will not have the right to remain silent anymore or can rely on what in the US is known as the Fifth Amendment. They have to answer the questions of the lawyer and the judge and will be heard under oath. This can have nasty consequences for them. Assume for instance that Joran’s father knows far more than he has told until now or even helped him. When he would lie during this civil suit and this surfaces in a possible later criminal suit (even when he tells the truth there), perjury can be established. Perjury carries a maximum penalty in Holland of 6 years and/or a fine of € 18,500. The same sentence can be handed out to all other family members who testify under oath and lie, including Joran.
Some people therefore speculate that this might be the reason that Joran has been admitted in a psychiatric institute. There he receives therapy for people who hit rock bottom in their lives and need treatment for behavioral and psychiatric problems. As long as Joran is under the care of these psychiatrists, his lawyer can claim that he is able to answers questions. Meanwhile the civil suit can of course just start with hearing the other witnesses. Usually these civil suits last for more than one year.
I will keep you informed in my blog about all the developments in this case. Of course I will go myself, completely voluntarily, to be heard as a witness in this court case.
Click to enlarge
April 6th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Jessica said:
Thanks for the translation; I can understand it a bit better now and don’t have to bother my dutch friends
It must take a lot of your time so I really appreciate it…have a good day!
April 6th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Dihannah1 said:
Ditto Jessica! Thanks for the translation!
And thank you for all you have done for this case! You are a true hero! God Bless!
RESPONSE PATRICK
Thanks for your kind words. I don’t see myself as a hero. Just as somebody who’s helping somebody out. If I was in the same position as Beth, I would hope someone would do the same for me.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
kayjay said:
Hello Patrick
Thanks again for all you are doing. hope your book is coming along well and will be a big success.
We on the Scared Monkeys website are chattering away..and one of the questions that we are wondering about is whether the lawsuit will be heard in the Netherlands or in Aruba. Frankly I am hoping it will be in the Netherlands because I have no faith in Aruba. Can you comment?
Take care
kj
RESPONSE PATRICK
It will be in The Netherlands.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:01 am
pete said:
pizzzapizza366555@aol.om
So jorans in a hospital? Please tell me it’s a mens ward only, otherwise I worry about any women that are anywhere near him.Where are his parents? I believe they need mental help as well. Those people are insane. Good luck and a thousand thank you’s for hanging in there and trying to help Natalee’s family.
aruba has gone from one happy island to one lonely boycotted island.
RESPONSE OF PATRICK
Dear Pete,
One of the reasons I took the task upon me is because I love Aruba, where a spent a large part of my youth. Can you please honor my achievement by not always taking everything out on the island. A boycot punishes the normal persons in Aruba most. Those who have to live from tourism. 99% people like you and me. They have done nothing wrong. Why hurt them for something they did not take part in and they loath as much as you do. Don’t forget that Joran was not an Aruban, but a Dutchman. He did not piss in his own nest so to speak, but in the face of hard-working Arubans, who have to make a living. If you believe strongly the people with the power were corrupted, address them but not the large majority of the population. When you respect what I did, then stop the call for a boycot. It’s time to heal, not to re-open old wounds.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Miranda said:
Hi Patrick,
I don’t think Pete called for a boycot; he just mentions a very negative outcome coming from this case for the island. But maybe you haven’t posted his complete message and I’m not getting the right idea.
RESPONSE PATRICK
Hi Miranda (and also Pete),
It is true that Pete in his comment makes a conclusion, but honestly said I don’t think it is “just”. Would it be true that he does not support he idea of the boycot? If so, I’m the first to thank him for it. I was against the boycot from the beginning. For the exact reasons I stated in my reply to Pete. My brother lost his tourist fishing business because of the boycot. Many other people lost their business too. In the first chapter of my book, I list as one of the reasons why I did it:
When I talked to my friends about him, I said that if given the chance I was gonna make sure this kid didn’t get away with it. I was born in Curacao and spent a lot of time in Aruba. These places are a part of me and I’m proud of them. This punk seemed to think that all of Aruba was behind him. I wasn’t behind him, and I wanted to heal the black eye my country had suffered from this girl disappearing.
Personally I do not believe a boycot was the right tool to put pressure on the Aruban government and law enforcement. It hurts too many who became victims of Joran van der Sloot also. Other pressure could have been applied. I don’t say at all that I agree how the Aruban government responded. Also their absurd attack on Greta van Susteren is silly. As far as public relations goes, Aruba does a very bad job.
But now we have this discussion going, I just ask everybody again. Please stop taking it out on the island. Expose any wrongdoings of the government and leaders on the internet or through the press. Your representives then will know how to deal with that. This is the reward I like to receive from you all. Whatever went wrong in the past, by exposing Joran I hoped for a process of redemption.
Greetings, Patrick
April 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Miranda said:
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for your response. I agree with you for 100%. And I’m sorry your brother lost his business.
Have a great day!
Miranda
April 8th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
A New Girl said:
Patrick:
From the bottom of our hearts, we Americans who are regular bloggers on the “ScaredMonkeys.com” website want to thank you for your involvment and INTESTINAL FORTITUDE ! Patrick and Peter have done so much in such a short time for Beth and Dave Holloway. Thank you for your updates, continued committment and for pushing the envelope with Joran, Paul VDS and the Kalpoe Brothers… Especially for taking on the pathological liar JORAN. Most of this blame goes to Joran, and his family who failed him and did not make him do the right thing. When Natalee began to get sick and convulse on the beach- he could have just CALLED AN AMBULANCE. He would not be in all this mess now- but since he took certain LIBERTIES with her he shouldn’t have- he panicked and look at all the HAVOC he has wreaked upon so many. What a cruel, worthless human being to have the audacity to think he can make a decision like that and toss someone into the ocean as if she were yesterday’s news….
Thank you again, Patrick for keeping it real-and having the you-know-what’s to do something about it. Yes! If it were you and your children, we would do the same for you. We respect your colorful past, and we know a real man when we see one !!! You don’t have to be an angel to be someone who isn’t afraid to take a stand……. =) Love you for that!!!!
Best of success with your new book and career!
A New Girl -from Scared Monkeys
April 8th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
A New Girl said:
P.S. Just for the record, while other SM’ers would get pissed that I post this- I am NOT for boycotting the Island of Aruba or it’s people. I honeymooned there, and have beautiful memories of it and the kind people I came across. I wish no harm or ill will against the locals there who just want this whole thing to go away as well. You are right- we need a time of healing and a process of redemption. If the Holloways are to receive some type of justice from the civil suit in the Netherlands, the healing I am sure will begin. One day, Arubans and Americans will sit together again in peace and talk of what a tragedy for everyone this whole case was.
* * Peace * *
April 9th, 2008 at 2:27 am
Mila said:
Patrick,Ik ben weleens op de SM-site,en de mensen op dat blog leven enorm mee.Maar het doet me ook pijn dat Aruba en haar inwoners vreselijk worden bejegend,en vragen om een boycot.Ik hou ook van dat eiland,en daarom heb ik jouw site genoemd zodat ze kunnen lezen wat jouw gedachtes zijn omtrent een boycot.En Patrick..jij bent een goed mens!!!
April 9th, 2008 at 5:09 am
Richard said:
Patrick, I have been directed to your blog. I am the man who organized the first of the boycott protests in Boston, just over a year ago.
Since then people have taken up the movement vigorously from coast to coast. Volunteers have joined in with signs, leaflets, giving of their time, and have donated generously.
This is not to say that I’m any more important than anyone else involved … but my point is, I believe that the boycott is totally justified.
What happened to Natalee … i.e., the cover-up … can happen to anyone. If the Aruban government and law enforcement are willing to collude in a cover-up (I trust that you agree with me, and with most of us, that a cover-up has been and is in place), why should the American people sit by and let Aruba profit from our business?
If Aruba is willing to threaten the Holloway Twitty family for their persistence in seeking the truth … is willing to deny American volunteers the right to search offshore waters because they can’t be bothered to sign a letter (in my eyes, the offshore search should be paid for, 100%, by the Dutch and Arubans) … is willing to change gears in the middle of the investigation and suddenly say “Well, if you don’t like what we’re doing … we don’t have any say anyway, go tell the Dutch …”
with all of this, and much more, having gone on … why shouldn’t we urge a boycott?
It may not be the best tool … but in my eyes, it’s the only tool we have to use. And clearly, it has been effective. Aruba Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said as much on Dutch TV.
My view is: American owes Aruba nothing.
We have NO obligation to go to Aruba.
The Aruban government has broken the social contract of tourism. No justice for Natalee … no tourists for Aruba.
Remember, our government has an embargo on doing business with, or traveling to, North Korea. I have nothing against the people of North Korea (the few that I’ve met have been decent), but they aren’t the issue. The actions of their government are the issue.
Elements of the Aruban government and law enforcement have conspired to deny justice for an American citizen missing in their land.
Boycotting Aruba, in my view, is only common sense. I shall continue to urge people to avoid Aruba. If that puts a burden on the everyday citizen of Aruba, let that person demand justice from his government for Natalee.
Until such a movement is seen, I see no reason that we should ease up on our pressure.
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
Dear Richard,
Today I publish an open letter in my blog with a reply for the latest call for a boycott.
A lot of my arguments are already in the open letter and my replies on the comments that arrived on my blog earlier.
I am curious what your background is in the sense of “why your personal opinion” counts for so much. Your founding fathers have built a system of checks and balances to prevent that some persons on the basis of false information can demagogue the general public. They also preferred an independent justice system that does not have to answer to the government to make fair trials possible.
I would love to know what checks and balances you put into place to make sure you can be an independent judge.
You write a cover-up can happen to anyone. I agree. I find it a racist point of view however to assume that that means that “anyone” is just Aruba. Cover-upS happen in the US also. I don’t agree that there has been an official cover-up in Aruba, coz I don’t have the evidence SO I AM NOT QUALIFIED. I doubt that you have the real evidence. I can understand your pain and those of others, but I don’t feel (at least not yet) that you are qualified to be the judge over all people in Aruba.
If officials really do threaten the Twitty family in their search for justice than that is wrong. I am not aware how they did that and if you can call it a threat, but any threat would be wrong. It does not mean that this validates a boycott. It certainly means that if a threat was made, this should be condemned in the strongest words.
I have admiration for the people who did and paid for the offshore search. Personally I feel also that the Aruban government should have paid themselves for the offshore search. After three years of not finding anything, I do believe that an offshore search is not very sensible anymore. A body disappears in deep waters. Nothing will be found anymore. Personally I believe that Aruba better spend the money on the introduction of a ‘Natalee Alert’ in Aruba. I will support such a call for a ‘Natalee Alert’, which was an idea that I gave to Beth. We are working on it.
A boycott call is something totally different than an obligation to go to Aruba. How could anyone ask the latter. I don’t see any logic in that statement you made.
On your “no justice for Natalee” I point out again that such is not the call of the Aruban government, like in your own country the court is independent from the government. I brought justice to Natalee and the prosecutors in Aruba are working hard to do so after Joran’s confession. I personally do not believe that the prosecutors and the court of Aruba staged an official cover-up. It is just not how the Aruban/Dutch system works. I would not be surprised if certain persons acted wrong. If it is never proofed, certainly God or Karma will punish them hard.
I don’t see what the boycott of North-Korea has to do with this. When your government starts a boycott to punish another state for other reasons that does not mean you have the same rights without checks or balances.
You have no proof for a conspiracy. You assume a conspiracy. You have also no proof that it is an official conspiracy. Your underbelly makes you believe it is an official conspiracy. True or not is then not the issue. The issue is then how qualified are you to judge this and to call for the suffering of 100,000 people?
You should ease up on your pressure, because I requested for that as a reward and there is certainly no reason to put more pressure in these days while the prosecutors are investigating the matter again.
I believe you send a message of hate instead of a message of forgiveness.
Besides my moral right to at least ask for this reward, I also believe that a call for a boycott paints Aruba as an unsafe country where crime is the order of the day and miscarriage of justice is a sure thing. From a citizen of a country with a far higher crime rate than Aruba, I find this unfair.
You can deny these statistics but that would out of blind bias then. You can deny that never once in the US a miscarriage of justice took place and that never any corruption or mishandling of crime cases ever took place in the US, but that would be arrogant. That is why a boycott is not fair. Putting pressure is always good. To wait and see how the Aruban people will vote next time and if the same officials return is interesting.
But one thing is for sure. Deny it any time you want and it shows blindness and false hatred. The crime rate per 100,000 citizens, the thefts and murders, the risks for any tourist that goes to the US, is higher in your country than in Aruba. It is a fact that it is safer to be in Aruba than in the States. Why do you refuse to see that? Take the Aruban government to Court for malpractice if you think you have a case, but don’t punish the Aruban people with the false assumption that Aruba would be more unsafe than the US.
I do not justify whatever went wrong in the case of Natalee. At the contrary! I put my energy in getting it solved. Every human live deserves that! But the world goes on. How much more logic would it be for you to put all the energy you have into fighting crime in your own country instead of in another where the crime rate is lower. I did what I could to fight crime in the country I adopted at an early age.
Greetings,
Patrick
April 9th, 2008 at 6:02 am
Joanna Campbell said:
Patrick,
Just want to add my thanks for your part of getting the little jerk to tell us SOMETHING that would explain what happened to beautiful Natalee. It is so sad that he did not seek help instead of hiding her body. I hope justice is found for Natalee and her mom and her dad and all those who loved her and who now have to live their lives without her. It is horrid that the young man was not taught the “right” way to handle things. So much grief and sadness on so many levels could have been avoided. The Island of Aruba is beautiful, and it is awful that the powers that be have chosen the path that causes its people and its visitors so much pain. Hopefully, the body of Natalee will surface and peace can be had by all. God Bless You and Mr. DeVries for doing what the Aruban Police did not-Hold Joran RESPONSIBLE for his action/non-action.Thanks for doing SOMETHING!!! Take care and GOOD LUCK on your book and also in your new career!
RESPONSE OF PATRICK
Dear Joanna,
I appreciate very much your kind words. I want to stress one thing. After the full confession of Joran how he disposed Natalee, the recovery of the body of this poor girl is not crucial for bringing peace. It happens more in cases like this, that the body is never found. It is years ago that Joran initiated to dump Natalee in the ocean. The punk literally feld her to the fishes. The effect was that her soul never rested and created the huge energy that dragged Joran down. At this moment his life is already wasted and the future will show if other justice can be dealt to him and his accomplice(s). The people who got the confession, including myself, are still working on the case. My remark on ‘peace’ is important. I know from my contact with Beth that she found peace in this confession. Therefore, it is also important that other people find peace in it. Coz otherwise there will be no peace, because her body will never be found. The case of Natalee has been a mystery. People love mysteries. They will never be satisfied until they, as a matter of speaking, see a film made by God and send to earth with every tiny detail of what happened on that beach. Somehow I feel that’s not right for Natalee and her family.
Greetings,
P.S. I don’t have a new career. Already for years I am expanding my business in hydraulic hoses and oil cleaning. I just took five months off to expose Joran. One of the reasons to do that, was because I wanted peace for the people in Aruba. Many Americans believe that there was a cover-up in Aruba. True or not, is not something I can judge. But I could understand one thing. If the law enfocement and government of Aruba cannot solve this case, then let the people of Aruba solve this case to bring peace again. I would be sad if the people in the States who takes an interest in this case, do not see the significance of that. You can say it very simple: the boycot worked. The people of Aruba - in this case me - did what law enforcement of Aruba was not capable off. Help me to honor my achievement. Help me to convince the people who still don’t advocate peace but anger and hate to turn the page. I refused to ask the reward from Beth and still there are people who think I did this for the money on SM. I was refused entry in the USA for old crimes before I changed my life many years ago (while Joran can enter any day), and now I must notice that some people in the US still want to continue to punish the people in Aruba, while it were the people (they could just not all sit in this Range Rover!) who solved the case.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Maria said:
Hi Patrick,
thankfully there are lots of people who do have the same view as yours. Some people on SM do take things to the extreme; but not all of them. Do you check SM regularly?
On some other forums there is so much…well you could almost say hatred…towards Beth. Where that’s coming from is a mystery to me & even more bizarre. I don’t like reading that kind of stuff so I rarely check those forums and usually read SM (although I don’t post there).
Thanks for everything you’ve done & will do for the case. It seems you’ve faced the music for your past and changed for the better; incredible! Joran could learn something from this…hopefully one day he will.
All the best to you & your loved ones!
April 9th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
A New Girl said:
Patrick—your response to Joanna is well put. As you stated, it is difficult for some people who protest to place their resentments correctly. Just because I blog on the SM site, does not mean I follow all of what many members encourage. You are correct about the body of Natalee—I am thankful you managed to bring Beth some closure which she needed. I do not feel you did anything for your financial gain- you merely got paid necessary fees for your time and services. Nor do I believe that you should not gain financially from your book….look at the emotional investment you poured into this investigation with Peter! You deserve every ounce of what comes your way, in a positive light. Because of Anti-Terrorism laws and post 9/11- the Div. of Homeland Security are the ones who made your entry into the States impossible. In our hearts and minds, you should have been welcomed here. If Joran knows what is best for him, he better never try to lay foot on soil here. Once again, we honor and applaud all of your efforts and have sincerest gratitude for what you have done for the Holloway family.
All the best to you and your family.
=)
April 10th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Jon Aaron said:
Hi, I have a web site about the Holloway case that I thought Patrick might be interested in reading- it is I believe the most complete archive of publicly available information about the case anywhere online (including what I think is the only complete English translation of the confession clips that were played on the De Vries program- I don’t speak Dutch myself, but had several Dutch speakers go over it for for me).
Link is:
http://www.hollowaycase.com
Personally I’m convinced that Joran is guilty, altho I tried to make my site as objective as possible. The taped confession was a sort of vindication for me, because it matched almost exactly what I had previously been basically alone in concluding was the most likely scenario: They did go to the beach, Joran killed Natalee while alone with her there, Joran walked home, and the Kalpoes were not involved. Only difference was that my theory was Joran got rid of Natalee’s body by himself.
One point of disagreement I may have with Patrick and de Vries: If Joran had an accomplice, I don’t think it was Paulus, unless Natalee’s body was actually hidden under the mangroves for about 48 hours, and the body disposal took place on the night of Tues-Wed. The reason for that is: I don’t think Joran’s and Paulus’ behavior during the first 24 hours after the disappearance (for example the creation of an alibi that depended on the Kalpoes) is very consistent with Paulus being involved at that time.
It is thought-provoking that at one point on the confession tape, when referring to “Daury”, Joran actually says “she/they” instead of “he”- not sure what to make of that.
Regards,
Jon
RESPONSE PATRICK
Hi Jon,
Thank you for the link. I will have a look at it.
There is a lot of speculation in yoour email. What Joran confessed in my car can be regarded as evidence. Speculation does not solve any crime (or anything for that matter). We got thousands of letters after the broadcoast on Feb 3 all with scenario’s of what happened. “I think, I believe, I feel…” The one you come up with was one of the most ordinary ones, around half of the suggestions made by the viewers, pointed in the same direction.
I also say to myself sometimes “I think I know who helped him” and one time I made that speculation while the camera’s were still rolling. We all like to speculate. After 5 months with Joran i can speculate a little better, but it remains “I believe…”
As millions noticed Joran spoke indeed sometimes of “they” and also of “higher powers“. I believe… that had significance too.
I was surprised you are in ‘disagreement’ with Peter and me about something we never said, namely that Paul van der Sloot is an accomplice in disposing the body. We only established (evidence from the confession) that Paul smuggled a mobile phone to his son in detention.
I thought your sentence “Personally I’m convinced that Joran is guilty, altho I tried to make my site as objective as possible” is an absolute classic!!! That sentence should be a standard warning against the pitfalls of subjectivity that people think personal point of views and personal opinion can be objective at all. It is one of the reasons why cops end up in tunnel vision and the public condemns innocently convicted persons. In this case we know at least one thing for sure… Natalee died in his arms and Joran confessed he asked help to dump Natalee’s body at sea. IKn the mean time we follow the leads.
Greetings
April 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am
interested said:
A partial post made at SM (regarding Miami):
…I also live in a very touristy area of Miami. And I abhor the crime that tourism innately brings. And I do many things to support the safety of my area — for the tourists as well as for my family.
And when we were boycotted primarily from European visitors because our visitors were being targeted by criminals as they left rental car agency we bugged our local government until there was action.
The rental cars were clearly marked by their license tags allowing our guests to be targeted. That was changed.
Tourists were getting lost — the airport is always under construction, the area around the airport is very industrial and, well, unsafe. New signage was put up at all airport exits and hiway intersections — symbols for hotels, the beach, the city, etc - are used rather than words.
And the tourists returned. Yippppeeee. (I’m not a big fan of tourist season. Which appears to be all year. lol)
I don’t see anything remotely resembling that from Aruba. And the good people of Aruba need to pressure their elected officials to do the right thing for their tourism industry, their economy and especially for their own welfare. And the welfare of their family. Or move away. Where they and their families can be safe.
RESPONSE FROM PATRICK
I hear what you arte saying and I’m happy the crime rate went down in your area. But let’s face it. The US has one of the highest crime rates in the world and one of the highest percentages of incarcerated people per 100,000 citizens. From that point of view tourists all over the world should then have to boycot the US as holiday destination. Heck, I can assure you 100% that the chance to become a victim of crime is much higher in the US than in Aruba or many other countries in the world. Let’s say you want to put your kid on school in America. Do I have to elaborate further after all the tragic school shootings in your country? Would that mean the whole world now has to call for a boycot of sending students to the States? You know as well as I do, that their have also been many miscarriages of justice in your country, yes or no tourists involved.
Don’t get me wrong, I personally love the US. It’s a great country. I just gave you these examples to show never to be superficial about things like boycots as punishment.
At this moment law inforcement in Aruba is working very hard to find more answers. I know, because I am in contact with them regularly to answer questions or provide information. I also know from chats with high hotel security officials that many hotels put alert systems in place when guests do not return in the night. Besides that there is also the issue of what the Government of Aruba has been doing wrong and what people THINK they have been doing wrong.
But all that aside, I have my issue. The issue that I started all this, put five - now eight - months of my life in it, to claim a reward. And that reward is that the people of America - and all those who continue to ask for a boycot - let Aruba off the hook. Perhaps the officials of Aruba did not do enough to get this case solved. But the people of Aruba did. I did it as their representant so to speak. And I ask kindly. Reward that. Stop the call for a boycot. When you area started bugging the local authorities they got what the wanted. When lots of people started bugging Aruba, I got what you wanted. And I did it for a purpose. Because I love Aruba where I grew up.
Greetings,
April 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
kayjay said:
Hi Patrick
This website must be keeping you busy! v Thanks for all the information which you give in a straightforward manner..much appreciated.
Am wondering if you have heard a rumour that is going around that “Daury” is under arrest in Florida for something related to drugs.
Is there perhaps a “Daury” after all? I will totally understand if you cannot say..thelast thing I want to do is jeopardize the case in any way.
Also would like to ask your opinion of Bram. Is he really as good as has been written? I sure hope so.
Thanks Patrick and have a good day.
kayjay
RESPONSE PATRICK
Mr. Bram Moszcowitz is an excellent lawyer who left many marks in the Dutfch legal system. beth could not have gotten anything better.
What was the other question again?
Greetings,
Patrick
April 10th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Richard said:
Patrick, you say that you don’t think that Natalee’s body ever will be recovered. Tim Miller and Art Wood believe that they know where her remains (obviously only skeletal, if that) are.
I have no idea, but I do hope that money will be raised so that the Persistence can complete its mission, and that their belief can either be proved or disproved.
As for the boycott, I don’t want to turn this blog into a debate on that. I would, however, like to say one more thing about it. We should remember that just after Natalee went missing, two Aruban security guards were arrested, with Jan van der Straaten standing by, on no evidence except the word of the three people last seen with Natalee.
They, of course, got off scot-free for ten days or so.
I don’t recall that anyone on Aruba has ever protested this gross injustice. It took the courage of an American, Beth Holloway, who went there and proved that these two men had no connection to Natalee.
I say to those people who disagree with the boycott (which is not ‘just’ for Natalee, but also for other potential victims) … give us an alternative. Show us another way that we can let Aruba know that this case will not be forgotten.
In her search for Natalee, Beth also stood up for the civil rights of native Arubans. It seems that nobody on Aruba will do that.
I say the boycott is only common sense, and wish that the people of Aruba would take the lead in seeking for justice. But I see no sign that they wish to challenge their government.
So those of us who support the boycott are resolved to keep going. Thanks for letting me put this here.
RESPONSE FROM PATRICK
Dear Richard,
You’re welcome. Freedom of speech, man. There are many Big Foot theories about the remains. I doubt all of them 100% percent until we are able to see the results. People are saying so many things and most of it is personal opinion. The people of Aruba cannot seek for justice. Only judges can seek justice. Like in your country they are independent in a system of checks and balances. I do not believe at all that the legal system of Holland an/or Aruba are corrupt in the way that many at your site seem te believe. The system is different than yours. the penalties are different than yours. For instance, for disposing a dead body the maximum penalty in the Dutch crime law is 6 months in jail (Aruba follows the Dutch crime law). Joran has already been arrested twice. I think it is very wise of the criminal investigators that they don’t arrest Joran lightly a third time. But in a certain way the people did justice. Joran is facing the music and it is a lot louder than he has bargained for.
I disagree strongly with the call for a boycot. I also resent it and find it ungrateful of all SM’ers when I asked for this after what I did, it is not massively supported. If there is no reward for the people when they take matters like this in their own hands, when their Government is not acting efficiently enough, then you will just harvest lacklustreness in future.
This case will never be forgotten, Richard, it was the third highest watched television program in the history of Holland. Joran will never be forgotten.His own lawyer admits het cannot walk the streets safely anymore.
Give me my reward: stop the call for a boycot.
April 10th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Soph said:
Hi Patrick,
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions and for your help in bringing some answers to all interested in the case, especially the family. I’m curious about the current status of the civil suit. Have you received a summons yet? Thanks.
RESPONSE FROM PATRICK
Good question. I have not received the subpoena yet. Really strange that is not. There is a whole procedure and it is send by registered mail. I will keep you posted.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Richard said:
This blog is not primarily about the boycott, and I have no wish to hijack anyone’s attention to argue for my belief that it is, indeed, justified.
People who come here are interested mostly in the lawsuit (one wonders how long it will take to get to court) and what light it will shed on Natalee’s fate and the persons involved.
But one comment made in that Vanity Fair interview some time ago sums up for me the central issue here. So, with Patrick’s permission, and everyone’s indulgence, let me post a bit of it here.
… many Arubans … have turned on the family, depicting them as Ugly Americans.
“THEY’RE KILLING ARUBA,” says Aruban businessman Charles Croes, a former ally. “That girl, Natalee, I wish she’d stayed home. I hope she’s found alive there. Because no one would care. No one. THE KID IS JUST NOT WORTH ALL THIS TROUBLE, THIS HEARTACHE. IS NATALEE WORTH IT? IS SHE?”
The Aruban police have reached a breaking point. In a wide-ranging interview, Gerold Dompig, the deputy police chief in charge of the case, says THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE to solving it HAS BEEN THE TWITTY FAMILY ITSELF.
(end of quotation … emphasis supplied by me)
There we have it, folks. Blame Joran? Blame Judge Bob Wit, who prevented the Aruban police from carrying out their full search warrant?
Nope. Blame Natalee’s family. Their demanding justice caused Aruba problems … and THAT, not Natalee, is the worry there.
“THE KID IS JUST NOT WORTH ALL THIS TROUBLE, THIS HEARTACHE.”
Sorry, Mr. Croes, but in my eyes … she is.
Maybe your concern is mainly with tourism; mine is with Natalee, her family, and other Americans.
After all, remember this: not one protest has forced any American not to go to Aruba. We can’t do that. All that we can do is present to them the facts of what has happened for nearly three years, and then ask them to make their own decision whether to go or not to go.
It seems that many, perhaps most, think that Natalee (”that kid”) is indeed worth the trouble.
So do I.
Thanks again, Patrick, for your forebearance.
RESPONSE PATRICK
Nobody can “afford” a human life. No price is high enough. Every human is worth the trouble to do something when in danger or to seek justice when their life has been taken. Even the biggest crook, whore, junk or arrogant bastard!
Blame often goes to the wrong people: Beth… Dompig. He who blames is not a superbeing. he who is not a superbeing must start with himself.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Brown Sugar said:
You people who claim to support justice for Natalee yet say “I’m not for the boycott” are a bunch of cowards and ass kissers. Your true colours are out now.
RESPONSE PATRICK
Cowards??? Hahaha. And hiding behind your handle brown sugar? How brave is that? What do you know? What do you base your superficial yelling on? Do you have some kind of argument at all or are you just a silly follower. Wher do you get your ‘intelligence’, if any? Oh and by the way, dear friend, for all clarity, I am against the boycott. Coz I don’t use coward language like “I am not for the boycott”.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Vicki said:
Patrick, The BOYCOTT will continue until there is Justice for Natalee…As Richard said, the ppl od LIERUBA should have spoken up. They went on the streets with SIGNS that said BETH GO HOME…They promoted themselves as a safe Island and then when Nat goes missing they look the other way…Yur ppl made liht of the fact that MAX Defries went missing and tried to say the Mom was in it for an insurance scam…Where is MAX???When the ppl on LIERUBA speak up for BETH and NATALEE then maybe , just maybe we will have some compassion for them. We owe LIERUBA NOTHING. You want tourism back???Then give Natalee back. How can you be so sure that her remains wont be found??? All things are possible with the LORD. I put my faith in his hands. There was a cover up, and there continues to be one…I really dont care what you say.You never really let URINE say anything…you kept interupting his talk…but whatever…If you feel like a MAN then great….
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
You are rambling now. When Joran dumped Natalee in the ocean, the chance she will be found back is nil. Don’t use the name of the Lord in vain, there is not much Christian in how you think.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:51 am
Soph said:
Any news on the civil suit yet, Patrick?
Any idea when your book will be printed in English?
Thanks and good wishes for you and yours.
RESPONSE PATRICK:
The book should be out in the US in September!